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Power steering fluid

28K views 26 replies 5 participants last post by  nbpt100 
#1 ·
Can anyone direct to the correct power steering fluid for an MKIV?

I looked in the owners manual and could not find it.

I tried a search here but it was not working.

Thanks in advance.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I found some posts on another board and there seems to be some agreement on what VW specs and some disagreement on suitable options.

This does not seem to matter which model or year. Please correct me If this is not true.

VW G004 000 M2
or Pentosin CHF 11S (Green in color)

Others are saying you can use ATF +4 or Dex VI and it works fine. Others are saying to only use the VW or Pentosin.

What folks do tend to agree on is if you use generic PSF it will screw it up.

Any added insight?
 
#3 ·
When VW switched over FROM ATF to CHF in 1991-1993, the actual parts numbers stayed
the same, only the fluid changed from Dex III, which is what they were using then. So,
it's not DEXIII anymore. Mercedes Benz uses ATF+4 and is the same PS parts suppliers as VW.

The fact of the matter is, ATF is the most common fluid used in Power Steering.

CHF came on the market and all the manufacturers simply rushed to it. They all came from Dexron III,
which isn't anything special, it's ATF, and Mercedes went back to ATF+4 from CHF. If anyone thinks
that CHF is the ticket to flawless Power Steering function, and longevity, needs to look into all the failures.
Dexron VI is now certified for PS service as well. The difference is ATF+3/+4 and Dex VI are now all
synthetic. ATF+3/+4 is even a specially formulated Synthetic (less grabbier than Dexron), FOR Chrysler
for their **** Transmissions. It's perfect for PS systems.

CHF is an aircraft grade hydrolic oil for use at high altitudes (mega-cold temps). What is the purpose of it in auto
applications except in arctic service? It's expensive, and NOT necessary. They're basically 10 weight oils
with anti-foaming additives, which is what ATF+3/+4 and Dexron VI has.

Mercedes has used CHF in all their sedans since the M112/M113 engine was introduced. The only
MB vehicles to use an ATF are the US built SUVs. The exception to that will be ML450 hybrids with
electrohydraulic steering.

All other vehicles with recirculating-ball steering will use an ATF Steering Gear Oil (A 000 989 88 03 10) subs
to BQ 146 0001. DTB S-B-46.25/70 indicated proper PS fluid.

I use ATF+3/+4, or DexVI in all my hydraulic power steering applications, it must be a
synthetic.

Can also use Valvoline Syn PSF, Royal Purple synthetic power Steering fluid. People have
topped off with these and went well over 130K miles.
 
#14 ·
I use ATF+3/+4, or DexVI in all my hydraulic power steering applications, it must be a
synthetic.

Can also use Valvoline Syn PSF, Royal Purple synthetic power Steering fluid. People have
topped off with these and went well over 130K miles.
Can these mix with what came from the factory? What is in there now is Original to the best of my knowledge. It looks like it is clear to slightly brown in color.
 
#5 ·
CHF11S was specifically designed for cold weather applications and similar to synthetic motor oil for
better flow in low temperatures, reducing the "whining" heard in power steering systems until the
fluid warms up. It is called a HYDRAULIC FLUID, is a thin hydraulic fluid, and is also used in other
suspension components, brakes, and rear wheel steering. In reality, nothing beats it's COLD weather
performance, that's it.

It's a Group IV Synthetic.

The CHS fluids blend OK with typical ATF fluids, so there's no harm in mixing (there are several TSBs
floating about that state this).

Hydraulic fluids that meet the MIL-H-5606 & 6CST spec will meet this. That is a very common aviation hydraulic
fluid. Just that instead of Green it will probably be red.

It's always SAFER to use what the MFR says, especially under warranty. I am just saying, there is no
dire need for CHF11S in some circumstances, especially if you live in a place than never gets below 40
degrees-F, or has very few cold days in a year. Like, TEXAS, though it can get cold there, it's not for
long.
 
#23 ·
The CHS fluids blend OK with typical ATF fluids, so there's no harm in mixing (there are several TSBs
floating about that state this).
ATF as power steering fluid is common and well practiced. Topping off is one thing, MIXING is another.
If you want to use ATF, then flush all the CHF and use a synthetic ATF. If you're a tad low, a top off with
ATF won't hurt it. I used ATF on all my power racks, I refuse to bow to the corporate hype for an AIRCRAFT
grade oil, and well, I'm driving a car, not shooting down MIGs at a cold 30,000 feet.
This is what I was talking about when mixing fluids, now you contradict yourself here. Which is the reason I said OEM and CHF 11S is Mineral Based Fluids and should not be mixed with ATF...

I own a motorcycle and use a certain synthetic oil too... The issue is each company uses different formulas which could cause harm to your vehicle/motorcycle.

The Jetta manual recommends G12, should I just use the green coolant?
It also says to use synthetic oil for our turbo vehicles, should I use conventional oil instead?

OP go ahead and use the ATF, it's your vehicle.

Check post #9 in the link below for an explanation why CHF 11 should be used.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=305655

Let me quote one part from that thread.

I usually try to stay out of it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by while someone is telling me that some under-engineered Chrysler-spec slushbox fluid is better for my VW power steering system than a high quality fluid it was designed to use.
 
#13 ·
It's not leaking at all, I guess I just bought it on accident since I didn't read correctly. I swapped my motor since last one gave out so when I switched the pump over obviously I had to dump old and refill with new. It just whines in am but the warmer it gets the noise goes away. Again, no leaks whatsoever...so guess I'll change it asap. Hopefully pump still good cause I was so close to buying and then I read this! So thanks guys ! If you guys have any more input plz let me know. TIA

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk
 
#15 ·
OK I just looked up the Valvoline Syn PSF and it says on the Product Information sheet to meet VW TL 52146 (G 002000) and
VW G004000M2. As well as some other European manufacturers. It says it is green in color.
Good find and a good cost savings.
The CHF 11 is about $20 at the parts store.

I did look up the Royal Purple ATF but it does not list any manuf. specs. It says it is made from synthetic blends plus a bunch of typical hype. IT may be just fine but I did not find their website very helpful or convincing when trying to confirm compatibility.

Check the level hot ? Correct? That is how it is with most cars but I just want to make sure as VW likes to do things differently. Thanks.
 
#18 ·
CHF is still synthetic: CHF 11S is a synthetic high performance hydraulic fluid for lifetime application in modern vehicle aggregates:
Power steering, level control, shock absorber, hydro-pneumatic suspension, stability and traction control, hydraulics for convertible
tops, central lock systems, etc. It is suitable for all extreme conditions and guarantees full performance from -40°C to over 130°C
system temperature.
 
#21 ·
Lets not loose sight of the value of boards like this where people share real world experiences and knowledge.
I know that Pentosin says not to mix their product with ATF or conventional PSF. That is their official stance.
I also know that these things are run through sales, marketing and legal departments before being printed statements. They all have their special interests that they want to protect. They don't give a rats arse about you! Don't lose sight of that.
The Germain car companies and their partner suppliers have a reputation for creating the appearance of unique, sophisticated, superior and expensive products. How often in the VW owners manuals does it say to take it to the dealer? Just to check the brake fluid level you ask! Yes this is a real example. They want a Black box product that you become exclusively dependent on them to maintain. This is a business decision they deliberately make. Run to the dealer all the time if you want. Or play it safe and buy the most expensive German mfg fluids. I don't think anything less of you for doing so. However, Most on this board are DIY'ers and like to solve problems themselves.

That is why real world experience as well as insiders sharing dealer secrets makes boards like this very valuable. I don't discount years of experience that any member has doing things in a way contrary to the Corporate position.

If Powerslave says it is safe to mix Valvoline Syn Power PSF with CHF11s and I have not heard any real world experience to the contrary, or a strong technical reason why not to do it, I am inclined to go with it. If you have an experience please chime in and add to the conversation.

BTW I was at Wal-Mart last night and saw a Prestone PSF for European Vehicles that specifically says compatible with VW G002. As well as a number of other manufactures specs. It was just under $7 for 12 oz. so it's unit cost is about the same as the Pentosin CHF 11s.

Let's not argue over facts. Let's discuss experiences and outcomes.
 
#22 ·
I had three motorcycles, and they want you to use MOTORCYCLE OIL, which can be $9.00
a quart. It's JUST motor oil, and that's what I used, on ALL THREE. Synthetic, but that's
what I used. Two of my JAP bikes said to use JASO certified, I didn't... Since it was only spring
or summer use, I used 20W50 syhthetic oil, and never had issues, in all three. I had a '87
Honda 500 Silverwing, '04 Vulcan 800, then an '07 Boulevard C50T. I used Synthetic MOTOR
OIL, period. Specifying an oil is a marketing scam to get you to pay higher prices for a branded
item.

As I said, when CHF came out, they all simply rushed to it, and they all came from using Dexron III,
which is ATF. Then not a synthetic, but was ATF. Now, ATF+4 is the best to use in power-steering
systems, because of it's formulation for the shitty Ultradrive transmission (UDT). If you were to put
Dexron in an UDT, you'll burn out the clutches. ATF +3/+4 had to be formulated FOR Chrysler as a less
"grabby" fluid because of how the UDT shifts; by simultaneously slipping into gear while slipping out
of prior gear. Dexron causes a momentary bind-up during that slipping, as if both gears were engaged
at the same time. Well, they kind of are, but the properties of ATF+3/+4 cause a slip, and not a grab
at that point in shifting. The notorious BUMP SHIFT is also this momentary bind-up, which happens
during down-shifting, a clear indicator you need to change the ATF+3/+4. ATF+3 only has a 30,000 mile
life. ATF+4 is supposed to be a "lifetime" fluid, and mercedes uses it in their sealed NAG1 5-speed Auto
Trans, which is also used by Dodge, Jeep... While you can change the fluid and filter in the NAG1, you're
not supposed to have to.

When someone says "Will last the lifetime of the unit" Well, when it goes bad in 130,000 miles, that WAS its
lifetime. If it went bad in 30,000 miles, that was also it's lifetime. It's a play on words to make you
think it will last forever...

ATF as power steering fluid is common and well practiced. Topping off is one thing, MIXING is another.
If you want to use ATF, then flush all the CHF and use a synthetic ATF. If you're a tad low, a top off with
ATF won't hurt it. I used ATF on all my power racks, I refuse to bow to the corporate hype for an AIRCRAFT
grade oil, and well, I'm driving a car, not shooting down MIGs at a cold 30,000 feet.
 
#27 ·
if your not aware of the different forums out there referring to whortex would not be a reference to here, there is a much larger vw audi forum out there then here[/QUOTE]

Ok maybe they are not angry at this Board but they are assuming anyone who challenges them is from some other board they clearly have contempt for. That said, my point is still valid about some posters, perhaps, being too emotional to be objective.
Thanks for the clarity.
:)
 
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