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  1. #1
    Member nbpt100 is on a distinguished road nbpt100's Avatar
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    Default Power steering fluid

    Can anyone direct to the correct power steering fluid for an MKIV?

    I looked in the owners manual and could not find it.

    I tried a search here but it was not working.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    I found some posts on another board and there seems to be some agreement on what VW specs and some disagreement on suitable options.

    This does not seem to matter which model or year. Please correct me If this is not true.

    VW G004 000 M2
    or Pentosin CHF 11S (Green in color)

    Others are saying you can use ATF +4 or Dex VI and it works fine. Others are saying to only use the VW or Pentosin.

    What folks do tend to agree on is if you use generic PSF it will screw it up.

    Any added insight?
    Last edited by nbpt100; 12-13-2016 at 02:26 PM. Reason: adding more info

  3. #3

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    When VW switched over FROM ATF to CHF in 1991-1993, the actual parts numbers stayed
    the same, only the fluid changed from Dex III, which is what they were using then. So,
    it's not DEXIII anymore. Mercedes Benz uses ATF+4 and is the same PS parts suppliers as VW.

    The fact of the matter is, ATF is the most common fluid used in Power Steering.

    CHF came on the market and all the manufacturers simply rushed to it. They all came from Dexron III,
    which isn't anything special, it's ATF, and Mercedes went back to ATF+4 from CHF. If anyone thinks
    that CHF is the ticket to flawless Power Steering function, and longevity, needs to look into all the failures.
    Dexron VI is now certified for PS service as well. The difference is ATF+3/+4 and Dex VI are now all
    synthetic. ATF+3/+4 is even a specially formulated Synthetic (less grabbier than Dexron), FOR Chrysler
    for their shit Transmissions. It's perfect for PS systems.

    CHF is an aircraft grade hydrolic oil for use at high altitudes (mega-cold temps). What is the purpose of it in auto
    applications except in arctic service? It's expensive, and NOT necessary. They're basically 10 weight oils
    with anti-foaming additives, which is what ATF+3/+4 and Dexron VI has.

    Mercedes has used CHF in all their sedans since the M112/M113 engine was introduced. The only
    MB vehicles to use an ATF are the US built SUVs. The exception to that will be ML450 hybrids with
    electrohydraulic steering.

    All other vehicles with recirculating-ball steering will use an ATF Steering Gear Oil (A 000 989 88 03 10) subs
    to BQ 146 0001. DTB S-B-46.25/70 indicated proper PS fluid.

    I use ATF+3/+4, or DexVI in all my hydraulic power steering applications, it must be a
    synthetic.

    Can also use Valvoline Syn PSF, Royal Purple synthetic power Steering fluid. People have
    topped off with these and went well over 130K miles.

  4. #4
    Senior Member KiDGiB is on a distinguished road KiDGiB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Here's the part number. G 002 000

    The equivalent is the Pentosin CHF 11S

    This was taken from the Bentley.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    CHF11S was specifically designed for cold weather applications and similar to synthetic motor oil for
    better flow in low temperatures, reducing the "whining" heard in power steering systems until the
    fluid warms up. It is called a HYDRAULIC FLUID, is a thin hydraulic fluid, and is also used in other
    suspension components, brakes, and rear wheel steering. In reality, nothing beats it's COLD weather
    performance, that's it.

    It's a Group IV Synthetic.

    The CHS fluids blend OK with typical ATF fluids, so there's no harm in mixing (there are several TSBs
    floating about that state this).

    Hydraulic fluids that meet the MIL-H-5606 & 6CST spec will meet this. That is a very common aviation hydraulic
    fluid. Just that instead of Green it will probably be red.

    It's always SAFER to use what the MFR says, especially under warranty. I am just saying, there is no
    dire need for CHF11S in some circumstances, especially if you live in a place than never gets below 40
    degrees-F, or has very few cold days in a year. Like, TEXAS, though it can get cold there, it's not for
    long.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    So is it safe to say that maybe if I change my power steering to recommended, my cold morning whining will stop? LOL
    Or is my pump for sure done? It only whines until it warms up.

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTeddy View Post
    So is it safe to say that maybe if I change my power steering to recommended, my cold morning whining will stop? LOL
    Or is my pump for sure done? It only whines until it warms up.
    Have you checked if you are low on fluid? I just have to ask.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTeddy View Post
    So is it safe to say that maybe if I change my power steering to recommended, my cold morning whining will stop? LOL
    Or is my pump for sure done? It only whines until it warms up.

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk
    That's what THEY say...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Yeah it's topped off for sure...but I threw in Lucas power steering..maybe too thick?

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

  10. #10

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    I think the LUCAS is a stop leak, I have some also, and it's REAL thick...
    There is the STOP LEAK, and a power steering fluid:



    OR



    They're different.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Shit...lol yeah that might be the issue?

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTeddy View Post
    Shit...lol yeah that might be the issue?
    Most likely, I would flush it all out and try some fresh fluid. Did you add the Lucas stop leak before or after hearing the noise? What is the reason for adding the stop leak?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    It's not leaking at all, I guess I just bought it on accident since I didn't read correctly. I swapped my motor since last one gave out so when I switched the pump over obviously I had to dump old and refill with new. It just whines in am but the warmer it gets the noise goes away. Again, no leaks whatsoever...so guess I'll change it asap. Hopefully pump still good cause I was so close to buying and then I read this! So thanks guys ! If you guys have any more input plz let me know. TIA

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerslavePA View Post

    I use ATF+3/+4, or DexVI in all my hydraulic power steering applications, it must be a
    synthetic.

    Can also use Valvoline Syn PSF, Royal Purple synthetic power Steering fluid. People have
    topped off with these and went well over 130K miles.
    Can these mix with what came from the factory? What is in there now is Original to the best of my knowledge. It looks like it is clear to slightly brown in color.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    OK I just looked up the Valvoline Syn PSF and it says on the Product Information sheet to meet VW TL 52146 (G 002000) and
    VW G004000M2. As well as some other European manufacturers. It says it is green in color.
    Good find and a good cost savings.
    The CHF 11 is about $20 at the parts store.

    I did look up the Royal Purple ATF but it does not list any manuf. specs. It says it is made from synthetic blends plus a bunch of typical hype. IT may be just fine but I did not find their website very helpful or convincing when trying to confirm compatibility.

    Check the level hot ? Correct? That is how it is with most cars but I just want to make sure as VW likes to do things differently. Thanks.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    There is a HOT and COLD line on the level indicator....

    I usually test/top off hot though, since you pour it in, it will heat up with the other
    fluid immediately... Pour some in, turn the wheel a little left and right, then
    check the level till full.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by nbpt100 View Post
    Can these mix with what came from the factory? What is in there now is Original to the best of my knowledge. It looks like it is clear to slightly brown in color.
    OEM and CHF 11S is mineral based. The ones powerslave is suggesting is Synthetic. If you want to make the switch, I would do a full flush first.

    If you are going stick with OEM or CHF 11S, then a turkey baster works fine to get what you can out of the reservoir.

    OEM is usually green, but since it's old it most likely changed to a brown color.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    CHF is still synthetic: CHF 11S is a synthetic high performance hydraulic fluid for lifetime application in modern vehicle aggregates:
    Power steering, level control, shock absorber, hydro-pneumatic suspension, stability and traction control, hydraulics for convertible
    tops, central lock systems, etc. It is suitable for all extreme conditions and guarantees full performance from -40°C to over 130°C
    system temperature.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    You are correct that it is a Synthetic. The OEM and CHF 11S is a Synthetic Mineral Based fluid. The rest you listed are not Mineral Based.

    Here's a link to the CHF 11S. Which specifically says not use mix with ATF and you posted that it's ok to mix them together...

    http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/4828

  20. #20

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    I didn't imply anything was mineral based to begin with, and it doesn't matter.

    It says "should not" and doesn't actually mean, DO NOT.

    Debate it all you want, I do what I want, and I still have sealed, no leaking racks, WHATEVER...

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Lets not loose sight of the value of boards like this where people share real world experiences and knowledge.
    I know that Pentosin says not to mix their product with ATF or conventional PSF. That is their official stance.
    I also know that these things are run through sales, marketing and legal departments before being printed statements. They all have their special interests that they want to protect. They don't give a rats arse about you! Don't lose sight of that.
    The Germain car companies and their partner suppliers have a reputation for creating the appearance of unique, sophisticated, superior and expensive products. How often in the VW owners manuals does it say to take it to the dealer? Just to check the brake fluid level you ask! Yes this is a real example. They want a Black box product that you become exclusively dependent on them to maintain. This is a business decision they deliberately make. Run to the dealer all the time if you want. Or play it safe and buy the most expensive German mfg fluids. I don't think anything less of you for doing so. However, Most on this board are DIY'ers and like to solve problems themselves.

    That is why real world experience as well as insiders sharing dealer secrets makes boards like this very valuable. I don't discount years of experience that any member has doing things in a way contrary to the Corporate position.

    If Powerslave says it is safe to mix Valvoline Syn Power PSF with CHF11s and I have not heard any real world experience to the contrary, or a strong technical reason why not to do it, I am inclined to go with it. If you have an experience please chime in and add to the conversation.

    BTW I was at Wal-Mart last night and saw a Prestone PSF for European Vehicles that specifically says compatible with VW G002. As well as a number of other manufactures specs. It was just under $7 for 12 oz. so it's unit cost is about the same as the Pentosin CHF 11s.

    Let's not argue over facts. Let's discuss experiences and outcomes.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    I had three motorcycles, and they want you to use MOTORCYCLE OIL, which can be $9.00
    a quart. It's JUST motor oil, and that's what I used, on ALL THREE. Synthetic, but that's
    what I used. Two of my JAP bikes said to use JASO certified, I didn't... Since it was only spring
    or summer use, I used 20W50 syhthetic oil, and never had issues, in all three. I had a '87
    Honda 500 Silverwing, '04 Vulcan 800, then an '07 Boulevard C50T. I used Synthetic MOTOR
    OIL, period. Specifying an oil is a marketing scam to get you to pay higher prices for a branded
    item.

    As I said, when CHF came out, they all simply rushed to it, and they all came from using Dexron III,
    which is ATF. Then not a synthetic, but was ATF. Now, ATF+4 is the best to use in power-steering
    systems, because of it's formulation for the shitty Ultradrive transmission (UDT). If you were to put
    Dexron in an UDT, you'll burn out the clutches. ATF +3/+4 had to be formulated FOR Chrysler as a less
    "grabby" fluid because of how the UDT shifts; by simultaneously slipping into gear while slipping out
    of prior gear. Dexron causes a momentary bind-up during that slipping, as if both gears were engaged
    at the same time. Well, they kind of are, but the properties of ATF+3/+4 cause a slip, and not a grab
    at that point in shifting. The notorious BUMP SHIFT is also this momentary bind-up, which happens
    during down-shifting, a clear indicator you need to change the ATF+3/+4. ATF+3 only has a 30,000 mile
    life. ATF+4 is supposed to be a "lifetime" fluid, and mercedes uses it in their sealed NAG1 5-speed Auto
    Trans, which is also used by Dodge, Jeep... While you can change the fluid and filter in the NAG1, you're
    not supposed to have to.

    When someone says "Will last the lifetime of the unit" Well, when it goes bad in 130,000 miles, that WAS its
    lifetime. If it went bad in 30,000 miles, that was also it's lifetime. It's a play on words to make you
    think it will last forever...

    ATF as power steering fluid is common and well practiced. Topping off is one thing, MIXING is another.
    If you want to use ATF, then flush all the CHF and use a synthetic ATF. If you're a tad low, a top off with
    ATF won't hurt it. I used ATF on all my power racks, I refuse to bow to the corporate hype for an AIRCRAFT
    grade oil, and well, I'm driving a car, not shooting down MIGs at a cold 30,000 feet.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerslavePA View Post
    The CHS fluids blend OK with typical ATF fluids, so there's no harm in mixing (there are several TSBs
    floating about that state this).
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerslavePA View Post
    ATF as power steering fluid is common and well practiced. Topping off is one thing, MIXING is another.
    If you want to use ATF, then flush all the CHF and use a synthetic ATF. If you're a tad low, a top off with
    ATF won't hurt it. I used ATF on all my power racks, I refuse to bow to the corporate hype for an AIRCRAFT
    grade oil, and well, I'm driving a car, not shooting down MIGs at a cold 30,000 feet.
    This is what I was talking about when mixing fluids, now you contradict yourself here. Which is the reason I said OEM and CHF 11S is Mineral Based Fluids and should not be mixed with ATF...

    I own a motorcycle and use a certain synthetic oil too... The issue is each company uses different formulas which could cause harm to your vehicle/motorcycle.

    The Jetta manual recommends G12, should I just use the green coolant?
    It also says to use synthetic oil for our turbo vehicles, should I use conventional oil instead?

    OP go ahead and use the ATF, it's your vehicle.

    Check post #9 in the link below for an explanation why CHF 11 should be used.

    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=305655

    Let me quote one part from that thread.

    I usually try to stay out of it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by while someone is telling me that some under-engineered Chrysler-spec slushbox fluid is better for my VW power steering system than a high quality fluid it was designed to use.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by KiDGiB View Post
    This is what I was talking about when mixing fluids, now you contradict yourself here. Which is the reason I said OEM and CHF 11S is Mineral Based Fluids and should not be mixed with ATF...
    You can still mix them, I was playing it safe. That came from many people on many different
    sites. None of which are flying at 30,000 feet shooting down MIG interceptors.


    I own a motorcycle and use a certain synthetic oil too... The issue is each company uses different formulas which could cause harm to your vehicle/motorcycle.
    That's all horse-shit! You just do not want to "add" any friction modifiers with a wet Clutch system.
    I used any Syn 20W50 they had! Had over 100,000 miles on the '84 Honda 500, sorry, not a '87
    34,000 miles on my '04 Vulcan, 17,000 on my '07 C50T, had to get rid of it for financial reasons.
    Changed their oils at the beginning of EVERY riding season. The difference is HARLEY, because
    their transmissions are separate from the motor, and DO NOT share the oil. So, you use syn motor
    oil, and a separate transmission oil. I even used a BLEND one year on the C50T.


    The Jetta manual recommends G12, should I just use the green coolant?
    I use off the shelf 50/50 Mix shit you get at WALMART to top off.
    230,000 miles later.... What? Nothing...


    It also says to use synthetic oil for our turbo vehicles, should I use conventional oil instead?
    Turbo is different, and you "can" but with a 3000 mile change interval. I go 12000 with 5W40
    The change interval with DINO oil is 3000 miles, where as Synthetics can go 25000 plus, and
    I did on my '07 charger. Changed the oil on that once a year, 5W30 Synthetic, and it had 116,000
    miles when I sold it, and it's STILL on the road.


    OP go ahead and use the ATF, it's your vehicle.

    Check post #9 in the link below for an explanation why CHF 11 should be used.

    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=305655

    Let me quote one part from that thread.

    It's not rocket science, and not even any kind of REAL science to begin with. All their
    shit is marketing ploys to make more money off THEIR merchandise. The only reason I
    use the right fluid in my DSG is because I have not found a suitable replacement. I have not
    found a chemically identical fluid. AND, I have read that people have used Valvoline ATF
    synthetic in their DSGs by accident, no ill effects. I put MotorKote in My DSG, 230,000
    miles later? Ahh, nothing....

    Horseshit labels and requirements...
    Last edited by PowerslavePA; 12-18-2016 at 02:07 PM. Reason: language

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by KiDGiB View Post
    The Jetta manual recommends G12, should I just use the green coolant?
    It also says to use synthetic oil for our turbo vehicles, should I use conventional oil instead?
    OP go ahead and use the ATF, it's your vehicle.
    Check post #9 in the link below for an explanation why CHF 11 should be used.
    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=305655
    Thanks for sharing that link. I read the entire thread.

    Here are my impressions.

    The comments were in favor of using CHF vs. ATF.
    A number of people on that thread have contempt for this board. One person actually called it Whoretex.
    With that said, are they being objective and unemotional? Are they grinding an axe for some unknown reason? Are the in your face negative comments discouraging others from sharing an experience that may be contrary to what they emphatically believe?

    I don't doubt the quality of the CHF 11S. I am sure it is excellent. I appreciate the guy who had work with it and shared first hand info. This is the kind of info I am always looking for on these boards.

    There were some strong arguments to use the CHF 11 most of which were that the cost is not that big over the life of the car. One guy said he bought one can of the CHF for topping off and did not use it for 12 years.

    On the ohter hand there was one guy who says he changes his PSF every other oil change. Now that is excessive! What possesses him to think he should do that? He must have a lot of free time and $$$.

    Finally there was one poster who said there are fluids that Cross reference to CHF 11 which are cheaper. However he did not list them so he was not all that helpful.
    I am comfortable using the Valvoline syn power PSF for a cost savings. I assume this is one that he knows of but did not care to mention.

    You can use G13 in place of G12 it is backward compatible. I would not use the "Universal" green stuff. Plenty of horror stories out there from those who have. Again this is the kind of feedback I am always looking for on boards like this.

    Cheers!

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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerslavePA View Post
    It's not rocket science, and not even any kind of REAL science to begin with. All their
    shit is marketing ploys to make more money of THEIR merchandise. The only reason I
    use the right fluid in my DSG is because I have not found a suitable replacement. I have not
    found a chemically identical fluid. AND, I have read that people have used Valvoline ATF
    synthetic in their DSGs by accident, no ill effects. I put MotorKote in My DSG, 230,000
    miles later? Ahh, nothing....

    Horseshit labels and requirements...
    let's cool our jet's here, watch the language, I'll let some go but relax a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by nbpt100 View Post
    Thanks for sharing that link. I read the entire thread.

    Here are my impressions.

    The comments were in favor of using CHF vs. ATF.
    A number of people on that thread have contempt for this board. One person actually called it Whoretex.
    With that said, are they being objective and unemotional? Are they grinding an axe for some unknown reason? Are the in your face negative comments discouraging others from sharing an experience that may be contrary to what they emphatically believe?

    I don't doubt the quality of the CHF 11S. I am sure it is excellent. I appreciate the guy who had work with it and shared first hand info. This is the kind of info I am always looking for on these boards.

    There were some strong arguments to use the CHF 11 most of which were that the cost is not that big over the life of the car. One guy said he bought one can of the CHF for topping off and did not use it for 12 years.

    On the ohter hand there was one guy who says he changes his PSF every other oil change. Now that is excessive! What possesses him to think he should do that? He must have a lot of free time and $$$.

    Finally there was one poster who said there are fluids that Cross reference to CHF 11 which are cheaper. However he did not list them so he was not all that helpful.
    I am comfortable using the Valvoline syn power PSF for a cost savings. I assume this is one that he knows of but did not care to mention.

    You can use G13 in place of G12 it is backward compatible. I would not use the "Universal" green stuff. Plenty of horror stories out there from those who have. Again this is the kind of feedback I am always looking for on boards like this.

    Cheers!
    if your not aware of the different forums out there referring to whortex would not be a reference to here, there is a much larger vw audi forum out there then here
    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Gargamelmk2 Hidden Content
    Its very windy....accidentally pissed on it.....I have no regrets

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    Default Re: Power steering fluid

    if your not aware of the different forums out there referring to whortex would not be a reference to here, there is a much larger vw audi forum out there then here[/QUOTE]

    Ok maybe they are not angry at this Board but they are assuming anyone who challenges them is from some other board they clearly have contempt for. That said, my point is still valid about some posters, perhaps, being too emotional to be objective.
    Thanks for the clarity.

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